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Re-rolling initiative

posted Nov 18, 2012 12:38:11 by Antalon
Page 136 states that initative remains the same unless it is forced to be re-rolled through a Combat Action or Special Effect.

What are these CA and SE?

The only one I can see is the option to re-roll initiative after successfully withdrawing (pg 158).

Antalon
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11 replies
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AmazingOnionMan said Nov 20, 2012 21:51:13
I reroll initiative when the situation changes. When withdrawing, getting up after knockdown, new opponent enters fray etc. We also have an unofficial SE "roll new initiative".

I don't think the rules give more examples than the withdrawing.
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RudyBoe said Nov 21, 2012 07:24:06
We re-roll initiative every round. I was not aware initiative requires a Special Effect to change. We kinda like the variation it brings, and players are looking at the generator every turn to find out who goes first...
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Skoll said Nov 25, 2012 08:33:10
and players are looking at the generator every turn to find out who goes first...

Hi,

May I ask, what's this generator you are talking about?
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RudyBoe said Nov 26, 2012 16:10:35
It's a Numbers sheet on the iPad: it keeps track of players CA, SR, Stuns, Casting time, Loading time etc and every round it rerolls all the initiative and lists all those fighting in initiative order. The iPad is out in the open, and the players are allowed to look at who is first in line for action. I originally understood that initiative re-roll was required every round :)
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jackpersona42 said Dec 11, 2012 18:54:36
I, too, lean in the direction of re-rolling initiative every round, lest you have one individual always getting off two attacks and one defense, to the one attack and two defenses of a similarly 3 AP opponent.
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DanTrue said Dec 11, 2012 20:13:26
I, too, lean in the direction of re-rolling initiative every round, lest you have one individual always getting off two attacks and one defense, to the one attack and two defenses of a similarly 3 AP opponent.


Until one trips, disarms, uses flurry, overextend, Press advantage, Pins a weapon etc ;)

I would go with rerolling initiative every round or every other round, if it wasn't such a hassle. If you have an iPad doing it for you, I can follow the reasoning.. but my game is set in the 1980s sadly (IRL).

- Dan
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jackpersona42 said Dec 12, 2012 02:13:18
If one wanted to avoid rolling initiative every turn, is there a canonical list of events that would cause initiative to be re-rolled? I couldn't find one in the book anywhere.

It's also not quite fair to assume that two attacks is better than two parries. With the right rolls, a missed first attack followed up by a successful parry could be just as good at setting up a quick kill.
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lawrence.whitaker said Dec 12, 2012 04:22:06
If one wanted to avoid rolling initiative every turn, is there a canonical list of events that would cause initiative to be re-rolled? I couldn't find one in the book anywhere.


No, there's no such list. It would be very difficult to draw one up. The recommendation is to re-roll initiative when the tactical situation warrants it. This could range from a dropped or pinned weapon through to the acts of gods themselves, depending on circumstances, severity, environmental conditions and so on. GMs must decide when a re-roll is necessary: its impossible to neatly summarise all possibilities.

It's also not quite fair to assume that two attacks is better than two parries. With the right rolls, a missed first attack followed up by a successful parry could be just as good at setting up a quick kill.


I quite agree - and we make this point in the GMs' chapter of the core rules. Acting defensively can provide you with tactical opportunities and is never to be underestimated.
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BruceMason said Dec 12, 2012 07:32:37
Actually something that people tend to underestimate about parries is that they are in many ways as good offensively as attacking because you already have information about the result of the attack.
If the attack is a success you know you need to parry.
If the attack is a failure you know that you are guaranteed at least one special effect if you succeed.
Conversely, when you attack you don't know what the result of the parry will be.
In the case of two heavily armoured opponents where damage is relatively unlikely except on a failed parry against a critical attack, the special effects that are most dangerous are the ones that trip, disarm and sunder etc. In that case, attacking lets you get the first chance at a SE but the parry is done with more information to hand.
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jackpersona42 said Dec 12, 2012 17:46:36
If one wanted to avoid rolling initiative every turn, is there a canonical list of events that would cause initiative to be re-rolled? I couldn't find one in the book anywhere.
No, there's no such list. It would be very difficult to draw one up. The recommendation is to re-roll initiative when the tactical situation warrants it. This could range from a dropped or pinned weapon through to the acts of gods themselves, depending on circumstances, severity, environmental conditions and so on. GMs must decide when a re-roll is necessary: its impossible to neatly summarise all possibilities.


Okay, maybe "canonical" was a bad choice of words. Is there a list of likely conditions that would tend to lead to a re-roll of initiative (other than the list you just tossed out in your comment?
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lawrence.whitaker said Dec 12, 2012 20:26:26
Is there a list of likely conditions that would tend to lead to a re-roll of initiative (other than the list you just tossed out in your comment?


No, as I said, its anything that changes the tactical situation sufficiently to warrant a re-roll. GMs must use their own judgment. The most likely circumstances - but this is not an exhaustive list, and may even be open to debate, are:

Significant reduction in numbers of an opposing side.
Lost, broken, dropped, pinned weapons
Disengagement of opponents and significant change of range
Other combatants joining the fray
Serious wounds and/or fatigue
Abrupt changes in the environment (darkness or magical light, for instance)
Introduction of magic causing changes in characteristics or attributes
Inclement weather
Changing weapons
Intervention by third parties bringing hostilities to a halt
Creature traits such as Intimidate
Surprise attacks
Deliberate changes in tactics
Changes in defensive positions (fighting up a staircase for example)
Changes in offensive positions (see above)

etc, etc.

Ultimately the GM has to make the judgment call. None of the above may require a change in initiative: it all depends on how the melee is influenced.
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